Highlights from the TSC meeting during ELCE


Nashif, Anas
 

Rationale:

-          Slack offers the project more control (for example fighting spam)

-          Very good Integration with GitHub and other platforms we use (Shippable). We are trying a few apps that would make it easier for us to keep control of the number of PRs and almost replaces the need to receiving emails from GH

-          Feature-rich: We are a software project, not being able to share code snippets in a clean way is a major issue on IRC.

-          Offers permanent connection to everybody: Not everyone can afford a permanent connect to follow discussions that happened while they are asleep. Slack gives developer a way to keep up with discussions and conversations and makes it possible for everyone to connect with each other.

-          Many other Pros, google for slack vs irc, for example: https://www.slant.co/versus/4553/4557/~slack_vs_irc

-          It is 2018 J

 

If you want to try it go to https://tinyurl.com/y8eusuhs. Btw, this workspace has been active for almost 2 years now.

 

The TSC will have the final vote next week.

 

Anas

 

 

From: Perez-Gonzalez, Inaky
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 2:21 PM
To: Nashif, Anas <anas.nashif@...>; devel@...
Cc: tsc@...
Subject: RE: Highlights from the TSC meeting during ELCE

 

Thanks for the summary, Anas

 

>> 4.       We are considering a new communication platform to replace IRC. Candidates are Slack and gitter. This has not been decided yet, if you have any feedback, please let us know.

 

I'd like to ask what is the rationale behind IRC replacement, what is trying to be solved?

 

IRC is:

- easy to access for everyone from every platform

- well integrated into everyone's favourite messaging client

- does not depend on a single corporation (looking at you, Slack)

 


Marti Bolivar <marti@...>
 

Hi,

I'd like to discuss some counterpoints.

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, 6:38 PM Flavio Ceolin <flavio.ceolin@...> wrote:
"Perez-Gonzalez, Inaky" <inaky.perez-gonzalez@...> writes:

> Thanks for the summary, Anas
>
>
>>> 4.       We are considering a new communication platform to replace IRC. Candidates are Slack and gitter. This has not been decided yet, if you have any feedback, please let us know.
>
> I'd like to ask what is the rationale behind IRC replacement, what is trying to be solved?
>
> IRC is:
> - easy to access for everyone from every platform

In all honesty I think

s/platform/Linux distribution/

And I agree.

IRC is not "easy" across platforms in a modern sense of the word, unless you use irccloud (which, full disclosure, I do, after changing from ERC within emacs by way of various other clients starting with Ircle on pre-OS X Macs back in the day).

Note irccloud is not free software.

> - well integrated into everyone's favourite messaging client

"Everyone's"?

I think this statement also has some Linux bias. Zephyr is a Linux foundation project, but it's also important to be able to develop using Zephyr and collaborate with other users on all supported platforms, and convenience and familiarity do have some practical weight here.

IRC clients that look good on a modern desktop (again, other than irccloud) are lacking. (Yup, that's an opinion.) Mobile support without irccloud is also lacking. 

And it's not like irccloud is exactly a household name.

Taking "everyone" by raw numbers, we'd be looking for WhatsApp,  WeChat, etc. integration, and I don't think their clients can be called "well" integrated with IRC.

So the above statement seems suspect to me. 

That said, preferring open and battle-tested standards is usually a good idea in an open source project, at least so long as they get the job done well enough.


> - does not depend on a single corporation (looking at you, Slack)

Slack is a proprietary de facto standard in this context, at least in the west. IRC is a venerable and interoperable open standard with usability issues and mindshare problems depending on who you're talking to. That seems to be the real crux of the matter here.

There's good arguments on either side of this debate, but I think we ought to be honest with ourselves that this is really what we are arguing about.



yeah, easy to script, clients are lightweight, ...

Full of spam (and, let's be frank, some of that spam is hate speech), it's 2018 and slack is lightweight enough for all the laptops we tend to use, lacks native support for anything that isn't plain text, ...


Without a good reason
I'm totally in favor of keep using IRC.

I hope the above is some fodder for discussion on why this is not a no-brainer decision.

Thanks,
Marti


>
>
>

Regards,
Flavio Ceolin




Flavio Ceolin
 

"Perez-Gonzalez, Inaky" <inaky.perez-gonzalez@...> writes:

Thanks for the summary, Anas


4. We are considering a new communication platform to replace IRC. Candidates are Slack and gitter. This has not been decided yet, if you have any feedback, please let us know.
I'd like to ask what is the rationale behind IRC replacement, what is trying to be solved?

IRC is:
- easy to access for everyone from every platform
- well integrated into everyone's favourite messaging client
- does not depend on a single corporation (looking at you, Slack)

yeah, easy to script, clients are lightweight, ... Without a good reason
I'm totally in favor of keep using IRC.



Regards,
Flavio Ceolin


Perez-Gonzalez, Inaky <inaky.perez-gonzalez@...>
 

Thanks for the summary, Anas


>> 4.       We are considering a new communication platform to replace IRC. Candidates are Slack and gitter. This has not been decided yet, if you have any feedback, please let us know.


I'd like to ask what is the rationale behind IRC replacement, what is trying to be solved?

IRC is:
- easy to access for everyone from every platform
- well integrated into everyone's favourite messaging client
- does not depend on a single corporation (looking at you, Slack)


Nashif, Anas
 

Hi,

 

The TSC had a full day F2F meeting with very good attendance and lots of topics to discuss. Here is a list of some the most significant decisions:

 

1.       Due to the significance of the next release, Zephyr 1.14 release date will be pushed into next year. Development of 1.14 will continue into next year and merge window will close on January 31st followed by approx. 8 weeks of stabilization. The final release of 1.14 is scheduled at the end of March 2019 (March 28th). This will give us time to finalize many of the currently under heavy development features and will give us enough time to stabilize and release a stable 1.14. One of the important items on the list for 1.14 is API stabilization and tagging APIs as stable, this include both kernel, device driver and subsystem APIs.

2.       To improve the review process we will introduce the following changes:

a.       Helper bots to help with tagging PRs and giving guidance to experiences and new PR authors.

b.       Categorization of PRs (Hotfix, Trivial, Maintainer, Security, TSC) and setting minimal review times for a PR in each category (more on that will be posted in the Wiki)

c.        Address the lack of reviewers and slow process of getting PRs reviewed in time. This is a major issue we have, we need more reviewers and reviews. Do not have much details to share here, but we are looking into introducing a system and workflow that would encourage developers and contributors to review more. Stay tuned.

3.       We will start a weekly PR backlog meeting (on IRC on teleconference) to give community members the opportunity to address concerns regarding their contributions and to raise awareness about stale PRs and changes.

4.       We are considering a new communication platform to replace IRC. Candidates are Slack and gitter. This has not been decided yet, if you have any feedback, please let us know.

 

 

More details in the upcoming weeks.

 

Anas