Zephyr x nRF52 Inquiry


David Rances <david@...>
 

Hi Jamie,

One of our team members came to the same conclusion as well. We'll need to check out memory usage and see if it's even possible for our situation. Assuming we can even attempt it, we'll test it out and experiment with it a bit.
I appreciate your help with this.

Thanks,
David


On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:13 AM Jamie Mccrae <Jamie.Mccrae@...> wrote:

Hi David,

You can package them up using nrfutil so that they can update over the old Nordic SDK bootloader, you would just need to adjust the kernel load offset to after the softdevice and you wouldn’t be able to erase the softdevice, and would then use nrfutil like you would packaging a Nordic SDK application. The issue you have is that you’re using an nRF52832 with 512 or 256KB of flash and the current S132 softdevice uses 152KB of flash, the bootloader was 48KB or so if I remember rightly so that’s 200KB of 256/512KB flash used, to which you want to add a zephyr application with it’s own Bluetooth stack… Depending on the application and if you have any non-volatile data, you might find there is insufficient space for it to fit.

Thanks,

Jamie

 

From: David Rances <david@...>
Sent: 03 May 2021 14:30
To: Jamie Mccrae <Jamie.Mccrae@...>
Cc: devel@...
Subject: Re: [Zephyr-devel] Zephyr x nRF52 Inquiry

 

Hi Jamie,

 

Thanks for the response.

 

Does that mean that if I have devices out in the field running firmware built on older Nordic code (SoftDevice and nRF52 SDK), the only way to get firmware built on Zephyr onto those devices would be to bring them in and physically erase/flash them? Since any existing methods to update the bootloader/application would be dependent on tools from Nordic that utilize the SoftDevice (OTA DFU) or their serial DFU using SLIP.

 

Best,

David

 

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 4:51 PM Jamie Mccrae <Jamie.Mccrae@...> wrote:

Hi David,

Zephyr does not use the Nordic SDK softdevice, it comes with its own Bluetooth stack which gets compiled into your application hex file. You would get rid of the code on your module and flash just the zephyr hex file, or you could also flash mcuboot if you want a boot loader.

If you are using the nRF connect SDK which uses zephyr then the ‘softdevice’ mentioned there has no relation to the Nordic SDK softdevice, it is Nordic’s proprietary lower link layer Bluetooth stack but similar to if using the one in zephyr, it gets statically linked to your output application and so you do not need the Nordic SDK softdevice

Thanks,

Jamie

 


From: devel@... <devel@...> on behalf of David Rances via lists.zephyrproject.org <david=strongarmtech.com@...>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:54 pm
To: devel@...
Subject: [Zephyr-devel] Zephyr x nRF52 Inquiry

 

Hi,

 

I've got a question regarding Zephyr for nRF52 devices. I have an nRF52832 device with an old application firmware and bootloader that is utilizing an older version of SoftDevice (v5) and SDKv14.2 from Nordic. I'm currently building an application with Zephyr right now to target the same hardware. Would I need to update the SoftDevice version on the device first in order for my Zephyr application to run? What SoftDevice version is the current Zephyr running?

 

Thanks,

David

 

--

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Email: david@...

Cell: +1 917 476 3696


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David Rances   |   Embedded Engineer

Email: david@...

Cell: +1 917 476 3696


NOTICE: This email and its contents/attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the named addressee or if this email is otherwise received in error, please immediately notify the sender without reading it; do not take any action based on its contents or otherwise copy or disclose it to anyone, and note that any review, reliance or dissemination of this communication is expressly prohibited.  Any opinions or views expressed in this transmission are solely of the author and do not necessarily represent those of StrongArm Technologies Inc. or its affiliates.



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________________________
David Rances   |   Embedded Engineer
Email: david@...
Cell: +1 917 476 3696

NOTICE: This email and its contents/attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the named addressee or if this email is otherwise received in error, please immediately notify the sender without reading it; do not take any action based on its contents or otherwise copy or disclose it to anyone, and note that any review, reliance or dissemination of this communication is expressly prohibited.  Any opinions or views expressed in this transmission are solely of the author and do not necessarily represent those of StrongArm Technologies Inc. or its affiliates.


lairdjm
 

Hi David,

You can package them up using nrfutil so that they can update over the old Nordic SDK bootloader, you would just need to adjust the kernel load offset to after the softdevice and you wouldn’t be able to erase the softdevice, and would then use nrfutil like you would packaging a Nordic SDK application. The issue you have is that you’re using an nRF52832 with 512 or 256KB of flash and the current S132 softdevice uses 152KB of flash, the bootloader was 48KB or so if I remember rightly so that’s 200KB of 256/512KB flash used, to which you want to add a zephyr application with it’s own Bluetooth stack… Depending on the application and if you have any non-volatile data, you might find there is insufficient space for it to fit.

Thanks,

Jamie

 

From: David Rances <david@...>
Sent: 03 May 2021 14:30
To: Jamie Mccrae <Jamie.Mccrae@...>
Cc: devel@...
Subject: Re: [Zephyr-devel] Zephyr x nRF52 Inquiry

 

Hi Jamie,

 

Thanks for the response.

 

Does that mean that if I have devices out in the field running firmware built on older Nordic code (SoftDevice and nRF52 SDK), the only way to get firmware built on Zephyr onto those devices would be to bring them in and physically erase/flash them? Since any existing methods to update the bootloader/application would be dependent on tools from Nordic that utilize the SoftDevice (OTA DFU) or their serial DFU using SLIP.

 

Best,

David

 

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 4:51 PM Jamie Mccrae <Jamie.Mccrae@...> wrote:

Hi David,

Zephyr does not use the Nordic SDK softdevice, it comes with its own Bluetooth stack which gets compiled into your application hex file. You would get rid of the code on your module and flash just the zephyr hex file, or you could also flash mcuboot if you want a boot loader.

If you are using the nRF connect SDK which uses zephyr then the ‘softdevice’ mentioned there has no relation to the Nordic SDK softdevice, it is Nordic’s proprietary lower link layer Bluetooth stack but similar to if using the one in zephyr, it gets statically linked to your output application and so you do not need the Nordic SDK softdevice

Thanks,

Jamie

 


From: devel@... <devel@...> on behalf of David Rances via lists.zephyrproject.org <david=strongarmtech.com@...>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:54 pm
To: devel@...
Subject: [Zephyr-devel] Zephyr x nRF52 Inquiry

 

Hi,

 

I've got a question regarding Zephyr for nRF52 devices. I have an nRF52832 device with an old application firmware and bootloader that is utilizing an older version of SoftDevice (v5) and SDKv14.2 from Nordic. I'm currently building an application with Zephyr right now to target the same hardware. Would I need to update the SoftDevice version on the device first in order for my Zephyr application to run? What SoftDevice version is the current Zephyr running?

 

Thanks,

David

 

--

________________________

David Rances   |   Embedded Engineer

Email: david@...

Cell: +1 917 476 3696


NOTICE: This email and its contents/attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the named addressee or if this email is otherwise received in error, please immediately notify the sender without reading it; do not take any action based on its contents or otherwise copy or disclose it to anyone, and note that any review, reliance or dissemination of this communication is expressly prohibited.  Any opinions or views expressed in this transmission are solely of the author and do not necessarily represent those of StrongArm Technologies Inc. or its affiliates.

THIS MESSAGE, ANY ATTACHMENT(S), AND THE INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN MAY BE PROPRIETARY TO LAIRD CONNECTIVITY, INC. AND/OR ANOTHER PARTY, AND MAY FURTHER BE INTENDED TO BE KEPT CONFIDENTIAL. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DELETE THE EMAIL AND ANY ATTACHMENTS, AND IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY THE SENDER BY RETURN EMAIL. THIS MESSAGE AND ITS CONTENTS ARE THE PROPERTY OF LAIRD CONNECTIVITY, INC. AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED OR USED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF LAIRD CONNECTIVITY, INC.


 

--

________________________

David Rances   |   Embedded Engineer

Email: david@...

Cell: +1 917 476 3696


NOTICE: This email and its contents/attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the named addressee or if this email is otherwise received in error, please immediately notify the sender without reading it; do not take any action based on its contents or otherwise copy or disclose it to anyone, and note that any review, reliance or dissemination of this communication is expressly prohibited.  Any opinions or views expressed in this transmission are solely of the author and do not necessarily represent those of StrongArm Technologies Inc. or its affiliates.


Eric Mohlenhoff
 

If you take a look at the supported board documentation for the nRF52840 Dongle (PCA10059), there is a section that describes loading/using a Zephyr application with the Nordic bootloader. I don't know if this is the same bootloader as the one you are using from the Nordic SDK, but it might be worth checking out as a starting place to see what might be possible for your situation.

--Eric


David Rances <david@...>
 

Hi Jamie,

Thanks for the response.

Does that mean that if I have devices out in the field running firmware built on older Nordic code (SoftDevice and nRF52 SDK), the only way to get firmware built on Zephyr onto those devices would be to bring them in and physically erase/flash them? Since any existing methods to update the bootloader/application would be dependent on tools from Nordic that utilize the SoftDevice (OTA DFU) or their serial DFU using SLIP.

Best,
David

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 4:51 PM Jamie Mccrae <Jamie.Mccrae@...> wrote:
Hi David,
Zephyr does not use the Nordic SDK softdevice, it comes with its own Bluetooth stack which gets compiled into your application hex file. You would get rid of the code on your module and flash just the zephyr hex file, or you could also flash mcuboot if you want a boot loader.
If you are using the nRF connect SDK which uses zephyr then the ‘softdevice’ mentioned there has no relation to the Nordic SDK softdevice, it is Nordic’s proprietary lower link layer Bluetooth stack but similar to if using the one in zephyr, it gets statically linked to your output application and so you do not need the Nordic SDK softdevice
Thanks,
Jamie


From: devel@... <devel@...> on behalf of David Rances via lists.zephyrproject.org <david=strongarmtech.com@...>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:54 pm
To: devel@...
Subject: [Zephyr-devel] Zephyr x nRF52 Inquiry

Hi,

I've got a question regarding Zephyr for nRF52 devices. I have an nRF52832 device with an old application firmware and bootloader that is utilizing an older version of SoftDevice (v5) and SDKv14.2 from Nordic. I'm currently building an application with Zephyr right now to target the same hardware. Would I need to update the SoftDevice version on the device first in order for my Zephyr application to run? What SoftDevice version is the current Zephyr running?

Thanks,
David

--

________________________
David Rances   |   Embedded Engineer
Email: david@...
Cell: +1 917 476 3696

NOTICE: This email and its contents/attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the named addressee or if this email is otherwise received in error, please immediately notify the sender without reading it; do not take any action based on its contents or otherwise copy or disclose it to anyone, and note that any review, reliance or dissemination of this communication is expressly prohibited.  Any opinions or views expressed in this transmission are solely of the author and do not necessarily represent those of StrongArm Technologies Inc. or its affiliates.

THIS MESSAGE, ANY ATTACHMENT(S), AND THE INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN MAY BE PROPRIETARY TO LAIRD CONNECTIVITY, INC. AND/OR ANOTHER PARTY, AND MAY FURTHER BE INTENDED TO BE KEPT CONFIDENTIAL. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DELETE THE EMAIL AND ANY ATTACHMENTS, AND IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY THE SENDER BY RETURN EMAIL. THIS MESSAGE AND ITS CONTENTS ARE THE PROPERTY OF LAIRD CONNECTIVITY, INC. AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED OR USED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF LAIRD CONNECTIVITY, INC.



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________________________
David Rances   |   Embedded Engineer
Email: david@...
Cell: +1 917 476 3696

NOTICE: This email and its contents/attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the named addressee or if this email is otherwise received in error, please immediately notify the sender without reading it; do not take any action based on its contents or otherwise copy or disclose it to anyone, and note that any review, reliance or dissemination of this communication is expressly prohibited.  Any opinions or views expressed in this transmission are solely of the author and do not necessarily represent those of StrongArm Technologies Inc. or its affiliates.


lairdjm
 

Hi David,
Zephyr does not use the Nordic SDK softdevice, it comes with its own Bluetooth stack which gets compiled into your application hex file. You would get rid of the code on your module and flash just the zephyr hex file, or you could also flash mcuboot if you want a boot loader.
If you are using the nRF connect SDK which uses zephyr then the ‘softdevice’ mentioned there has no relation to the Nordic SDK softdevice, it is Nordic’s proprietary lower link layer Bluetooth stack but similar to if using the one in zephyr, it gets statically linked to your output application and so you do not need the Nordic SDK softdevice
Thanks,
Jamie


From: devel@... <devel@...> on behalf of David Rances via lists.zephyrproject.org <david=strongarmtech.com@...>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 8:54 pm
To: devel@...
Subject: [Zephyr-devel] Zephyr x nRF52 Inquiry

Hi,

I've got a question regarding Zephyr for nRF52 devices. I have an nRF52832 device with an old application firmware and bootloader that is utilizing an older version of SoftDevice (v5) and SDKv14.2 from Nordic. I'm currently building an application with Zephyr right now to target the same hardware. Would I need to update the SoftDevice version on the device first in order for my Zephyr application to run? What SoftDevice version is the current Zephyr running?

Thanks,
David

--

________________________
David Rances   |   Embedded Engineer
Email: david@...
Cell: +1 917 476 3696

NOTICE: This email and its contents/attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the named addressee or if this email is otherwise received in error, please immediately notify the sender without reading it; do not take any action based on its contents or otherwise copy or disclose it to anyone, and note that any review, reliance or dissemination of this communication is expressly prohibited.  Any opinions or views expressed in this transmission are solely of the author and do not necessarily represent those of StrongArm Technologies Inc. or its affiliates.


David Rances <david@...>
 

Hi,

I've got a question regarding Zephyr for nRF52 devices. I have an nRF52832 device with an old application firmware and bootloader that is utilizing an older version of SoftDevice (v5) and SDKv14.2 from Nordic. I'm currently building an application with Zephyr right now to target the same hardware. Would I need to update the SoftDevice version on the device first in order for my Zephyr application to run? What SoftDevice version is the current Zephyr running?

Thanks,
David

--

________________________
David Rances   |   Embedded Engineer
Email: david@...
Cell: +1 917 476 3696

NOTICE: This email and its contents/attachments may be confidential and are intended solely for the individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the named addressee or if this email is otherwise received in error, please immediately notify the sender without reading it; do not take any action based on its contents or otherwise copy or disclose it to anyone, and note that any review, reliance or dissemination of this communication is expressly prohibited.  Any opinions or views expressed in this transmission are solely of the author and do not necessarily represent those of StrongArm Technologies Inc. or its affiliates.